Flight 77 Substitution


Hanjour's Detour on Flight 77. Atta's Flight 11 Detour. Plane swap?

Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
Flight 77 was never lost to RADAR.

Tell that to the 9/11 Commission. You include a graphic that has an incomplete route, then expect your other arguments to be taken on faith?

The "U" shaped detour on the western route is completely missing. You can see it on this graphic from USA Today.

Note the dotted line, signifying the route back to the Pentagon when Flight 77 was lost on radar, according to the Official 9/11 Commission Report, starting on page 24:

American 77 began deviating from its flight plan at 8:54...Two minutes later, it disappeared completely from radar...Shortly after 9:00, Indianapolis Center started notifying other agencies that American 77 was missing and had possibly crashed...The failure to find a primary radar return for American 77 led us to investigate this issue further....At 9:32, they found one...and at 9:38, seconds after impact, reported to the control tower: "looks like that aircraft crashed into the Pentagon sir."

Flight 77 was lost on radar near Yeager Airport in Charleston WV, with a runway 6302 feet in length, serving both AA and UA. I am not claiming it swapped planes there, only that this needs to be checked out.

A new investigation commission needs to figure out why Hani Hanjour made this strange U turn, exposing him for a longer time to being shot down.

Similarly, why would Muhammed Atta want to expose himself to being shot down by taking a detour that wasted about 1/2 hour?

Note that Flight 11 leaves Boston, gets hijacked, then heads straight NORTH WEST towards Griffiss Air Force Base in Upstate New York. Hey, wrong way Muhammed! Then Flight 11 turns abruptly south to NYC to crash in to WTC 1.

Dr. Griscom (PhD Brown, Physics, Naval Research Laboratory scientist, chosen by NASA to analyze Moon rocks, 193 peer reviewed publications) hypothesizes a plane swap at the northern tip of Atta's Detour. Flight 175 also took a detour south, near McGuire AFB, then north, when it could have simply hit WTC 2 from the west. http://DavidGriscom.com/New911Hypothesis

It is also a strange coincidence that Flight 11 and Flight 175, both taking off from Boston but 20 minutes apart, crossed paths near Stewart Airport in down state New York, on their way to hit WTC 1 and 2. The probability of two planes detouring then intersecting like that by chance is small.

These are strange detours that are clearly visible using publicly available news data. The hijackers were not the greatest pilots, but they could surely read a compass, front and center on the plane's dash board. Critical Thinkers should welcome a New Investigation, if nothing else but to validate the OCT.

This link to a Flash animation shows the routes from all 4 flights on 9/11. (Still graphic is below.)
http://911Experiments.org/USAToday91...911Flights.swf (Click on "See All Flights. Go")

This is not true

esponses to NoahFence

Originally Posted by NoahFence View Post
Please refer to post #132 and give me your thoughts. Please.

Thank you for asking so nicely, a good example for JREF. I am up early to hopefully answer all your questions.

it seems to me that you think an airplane hit the Pentagon AND one flew over?

I believe only ONE plane was within a mile of the Pentagon. I am in a quandary, seeing strong evidence for a North of Citgo approach, but weak evidence of a Fly Over.

As HAL 9000 said: "I'm sorry Dave. I do not have enough information." That's why I'm reading JREF, to get more info and challenge my assumptions.

1 striking it, and another flying over?

From the evidence I have evaluated so far, there was only 1 plane that was within a mile of Pentagon - not a 2nd plane, and not a missile.

In your opinion why did the pilot of the C130 asked to tail AA flight 77 not mention a 2nd plane, or a drone, or anything other than AA flight 77?

Because there was only the 1 plane, identified as AA Flight 77 that got to the Pentagon. If anyone saw a 2nd or 3rd plane farther away from the Pentagon, it would have been the C130 or the so-called "mystery plane" the white E-4B mentioned by main stream news plus Discovery.

If there were 2 aircraft as you suggest, wouldn't he have mentioned that?

Although there were 3 in the general area Washington DC, only 1 was actually close enough to hit the Pentagon. We deserve to see a photo of it, which probably exists, considering the 85 security cameras the FBI confiscated.

shall I just add you to the list starting with ergo of truthers who selectively ignore people?

No, please don't put me on the Last Responder list. I try to answer as time permits, and especially not ignore people who ask nicely.

If people don't respond to us soon it may be:
* Something came up in their personal or work responsibilities
* They didn't like the verbal abuse, and just ignore us
* They are composing and researching a well supported response
* They realize we are right and now agree with us

Flight 11 was bound for LAX not SFO

Originally Posted by beachnut View Post
Not the truth! Flight 11 took off and about 12 minutes after take off 11 was vectored right 20 degrees by ATC.

You are an Air Transport Pilot, so I respect your knowledge about flights. I posted a link to the news report and graphic made by USA Today, a main stream news source. Similar descriptions and graphics are found in the New York Times, Washington Post, etc. So if all these news outlets are wrong, and you have proof, you are welcome to let them know. You could edit Wikipedia.

was 11 planing on going to SFO? Any clue on this?

You made a good point that a 20 degree right turn would makes sense go towards SFO. But, Flight 11 was bound for Los Angeles, not San Francisco.

Now, if I made this mistake you would probably be hounding all over me "What! Fly much? Clueless! etc." But I'm not like that, and just want facts.

Wikipedia: "The 9/11 Commission estimated that the hijacking began at 8:14." This is about a minute after ATC instructed them to turn, as you provided.

8:19 Betty Ong reports "The cockpit is not answering..." (Did she not see any hijackers go in?)

At 8:26:30 Flight 11 makes a 100 degree turn to the south, according to the NTSB Report, Page 3.

The airplane maintained this altitude and the Northwest heading until about 8:26:30 (point E). At this point, the airplane made a level, left turn to the South.

The continuation of the NORTH west path for 10 to 12 minutes is suspicious because Atta should have known that NYC is SOUTH west and turned at 8:14, or at least within a few minutes of the hijacking. He then would have another 10 minutes or so to get back south. This detour wasted time, exposing the flight to intercept.

11 turns to the WTC complex over 60 miles from Griffiss AFB. What was the point Griscom was trying to make?

Dr. Griscom hypothesizes that a drone met and replaced Flight 11 near Amsterdam NY, about 64 miles from Griffiss. It is a common War Game tactic for 2 or more planes to fly close, to appear as 1 radar blip to the other side.

Hypothesis means it is a theory, not a claim as fact. It is yet one more thing for a New Investigation to check out. The OCT is a hypothesis.

You well know this, but here is a graphic for non-pilots to see that the compass and heading indicator is easy for the pilot to see.



Huntington's Tri-State and Charleston's Yeager Airports

Originally Posted by BCR View Post
No, they said it was lost to ZID (Indianapolis) radar screens, not to radar.
I did indeed visit Charleston, WV and Yeager. But the plane was lost closer to Huntington's Tri-State (which I visited as well).

You are right. HTS is about 60 miles west of CRW/Yeager.1 One of its two runways is 7017 feet.2

I'll email this to Dr. Griscom, so he can consider it in the next revision of his hypotheses.3

"Huntington Tri-State Airport handles commercial airline, air cargo, military, and general aviation traffic." They presently serve Delta, Allegiant, and US Airways.4

1 http://maps.google.com/maps?f=d&sour...74164&t=h&z=10
2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tri-State_Airport
3 http://DavidGriscom.com/New911Hypothesis
4 http://TriStateAirport.com